Aaron: John, you've written and spoken a lot about success. How would you distinguish success from significance? John Maxwell: Well, I think they're both very important in a person's life. We know more about success than we do significance, Aaron. I've met a lot of unhappy, successful people. Because if you think happiness and fulfillment are going to be found in what you have, you're just going to be disappointed because you're never going to have enough. Selfishness and significance are not compatible. You've got to let one of them go. Aaron: Well, just picking up off that, it seems like significance and generosity seem like synonyms. John Maxwell: Oh, they are. Oh, totally. Aaron: So what's the relationship between generosity and significance to you? John Maxwell: Well, I think it's, first of all, more than money. It's a mindset. It's how you think. It's your perspective. I have never met a person that just focused on significance, asking, "What can I do to add value to people? How can I put others first?" I've never met a person that lived a life of significance that was unfulfilled and unhappy. And I think that is very important. And the reason for that is we were created. We're created to share, care, love, and help other people. Aaron: Yeah. Everyone's looking for peace of mind. Sometimes we say peace of mind doesn't necessarily come from success. It comes from when we see our values reflected in our behavior. I wonder if you could just talk a little bit about that. John Maxwell: Well, I can. In fact, I love the way you said it. Let me just say this. Values are a choice. So it's not like one day I wake up and see the values I have, and that begins to determine what my behavior is. Here's what's beautiful. When it comes to values, when it comes to choices, when it comes to significance, all those things we can determine. I have certain gifts and talents. They were given to me. I didn't determine those at all. I've got the cards handed to me, and some are good, some are not so hot either. So talent and giftedness are somewhat out of my control. But choices, that's within my control. And what I think is the big miss with people is that in choices like attitude and values, I can go from a zero or a one, very poor, to a ten very quickly because it's a choice. And so when you're talking about values in a person's life, you can choose good values. You choose good values, you'll have good behavior. You have good behavior, you'll begin to have things that will be fulfilling in your life. It's a sequence, but it is, I think, pretty much intentional. It's not an accident. Aaron: So how have you found people choosing to be more intentional? What are some of the keys to success in making that choice? John Maxwell: Well, I think, first of all, you just have to understand that growth comes from getting out of our comfort zone. Everything that I need in life and everything I want in life, but don't have, is because it's outside of my comfort zone. And when a person begins to get outside of that comfort zone, jump the fence, find out who their neighbor is, begin to add value to people, and intentionally and purposefully do things that make other people's lives better, something happens. It's interesting. When you find someone else, you find yourself. So Aaron, in Blue Trust, how does significance perhaps become more of an emphasis than success? How does that play out within your organization? Aaron: It plays out primarily with clients who come to us, and a lot of times they've achieved what we would consider success, whether it's financial or in business. And they're asking, "How do I get my arms around this?" And not only that, but "How can I get peace of mind that I'm being a good steward?" Because adding more dollars up, as we know, doesn't fulfill. But when we can align our finances with our values and say, "My money is not the end goal. It's actually just a tool to fuel what God's called me to do," it does bring a lot of peace of mind because it aligns behavior and values. John Maxwell: Well, I think, Aaron, what Blue Trust does for people is really come alongside as a friend and as a guide and help them get some alignment so that they can take these financial resources and use them in significant ways, which will bring fulfillment. I say Blue Trust is a good friend. Aaron: I think that's right. We tell clients that money, if you look at Scripture, is just a tool and it's a test and it's a testimony. It's never the end goal. So then when we begin to unpack, okay, what would God have you do in using it as a tool? Or how is it a test or a testimony? It opens up some interesting conversations. John Maxwell: Of course it does, yeah. Aaron: John, let me just thank you to close up. I think your perspective has been super helpful as we journey with clients and help give them perspective. There's a scarcity of wisdom in the world today, and you've dispensed quite a bit of that, so thank you. John Maxwell: It's my pleasure. I certainly appreciate so much what you're doing.